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Posts: 13820
May 16 13 11:08 AM
Only Human
Alvida wrote: I guess that would depend on who does the dying and who does the killing, and why?To the question 'Is Democracy worth dying for?'My answer is ''Yes.'' To have someone worth dying for I accept, but democracy? And all the more ironic and tragic when people die and the result is actually less freedom.
I guess that would depend on who does the dying and who does the killing, and why?To the question 'Is Democracy worth dying for?'My answer is ''Yes.''
But to respond to the cases of those dictators specifically, they all have a background that involves religion but clearly their personal experience and outlook made them denounce it, they embraced atheism and that atheism has to be acknowledged in who they were, it cannot be denied simply because of their religious past. But as I say, not that I see religious or atheist belief either way as relevant factors.
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Posts: 8054
May 16 13 6:29 PM
Ms. Agreeable
Propaganster wrote:Someone? Well, I would take a bullet for you.
I asked you earlier to define ''Democracy.'' That began with ''a mere word (...).' Of course, I would not expect anyone to be prepared to die for a 'mere word.' But ''Democracy'' is a bit more than that to me.
What 'belief' do you associate with atheism? In another reply, you used the word 'doctrine.' There is no doctrine associated with atheism in and of itself - because atheism is not a belief, or a conviction, in the traditional sense of the word.
Hitler was never an atheist, and many close to Staline have stated that he was actually a Deist (and he believed in Jesus Christ). That leaves (potentially) Pol Pot and (more certainly) Mao. But even then, their atheism is not what they relied on to build their communistic-materialistic doctrines, they created religions around that.
May 19 13 10:27 AM
Alvida wrote:Propaganster wrote:Someone? Well, I would take a bullet for you. Well that's very decent. I got your back too. I asked you earlier to define ''Democracy.'' That began with ''a mere word (...).' Of course, I would not expect anyone to be prepared to die for a 'mere word.' But ''Democracy'' is a bit more than that to me. Well for example, if life for the average person was actually better under the dictator's rule (even if only because the country wasn't in turmoil due to war, terrorism and mass displacement) than it goes on to be under supposed democratic rule which proves to be more oppressive in terms of everyday freedoms, what meaning and worth does the word 'democracy' have then?
Well not believing in god is itself a belief.
Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao, they did have a doctrine, which included an active intolerance and hostility to religion, and the belief that moulding a new nation without religion was the way forward.
what we do know is that none of (Stalin's) actions included promoting deism as Russia's new religion.
May 19 13 7:08 PM
Propaganster wrote:Under a dictator's rule, the lives of some will invariably be made miserable. Some may still have a 'decent' life under a dictatorship, even a good one, but what does it say that they are silent in the face of the mistreatment others will suffer through?
Democracy is, in some manner, specifically that - Everyday freedoms. But what I most associate with ''democracy'' as an idea, a concept, is the Right of Dissent. That right, and the freedoms that come with it, is worth dying for. If not, than nothing and no one is worth dying for in my view.
Hmmmm.. no.
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